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Dr Jordan B Peterson and John Anderson discuss the impressive erasure of Australia’s federal debt during Anderson’s employment as Deputy Prime Minister. They also go into the importance of economic reform, the regression in progress seen through the lens of climate change, the spirit of democracy, and the inherent worth of man.

Instead of the regular articles where John Anderson is the interviewer, this time the tables are turned – as John Anderson is interviewed by Jordan Peterson. I am highlighting this discussion particularly for its three-fold focus:

1. Governments can be fiscally responsible and leave office with the country in the black.
2. Climate change measures are unnecessary and are impoverishing the most vulnerable.
3. Viewing mankind with intrinsic God given value changes everything.

(Short of time? Use the chapter headings in the video to find the parts you want!).

1. Governments Can be Fiscally Responsible and Leave Office with the Country in the Black

John kicks off with a great phrase – today there is lack of willingness to focus on the national interest. How true, it’s as if governments have forgotten how to govern their land and their people. They are so focused on peddling a global ideology (that’s my commentary if you hadn’t pick it!).

Jordan hears from John how the Federal Government, under John Howard (1996–2007) with Treasure, Peter Costello, brought the country into the black. John recounts how it took two terms of great courage and self-discipline. The conviction leadership of Howard, the attention to detail and dedicated teamwork that never once broke rank. The era was characterised by being very prudent in the good times, putting money away in the Future Fund.

The result was that when the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) hit in 2008, Australia was arguably the best placed of all the Western nations to survive.

This discussion progressed into the dangers associated with excessive government spending. And how it encourages an entitlement mentality, which diminishes personal responsibility, creativity and problem solving on the part of the individual. In addition, government spending (creating an increase of national debt, known as quantitative easing, or printing money) simply fuels inflation, that cripples the poor first.

2. Climate Change Measures are Unnecessary and are Impoverishing the Most Vulnerable

 John laments that governments now have a new class of politician who believe they must make sacrifices to mother earth, and if necessary, jettison some of us, as the planet can’t sustain us all! Who will decide who is to be jettisoned?

Jordan retort quickly, the ones going to be tipped overboard are those who are on a subsistence level now. The poor in the Western world and the whole of the developing world.

There was much discussion on how the Western world, with its Judeo-Christian foundations, has been the only civilisation to have brought so much relief from poverty right across the globe. Nutritional levels have risen, diseases have been controlled, and life expectancy increased. Let’s not throw away all these gains.

Jordan quotes data on the increased levels of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere since 2000. And as a result, since the turn of the century the planet is now 15% greener. Most of this extra growth has occurred in semi-arid regions, previously predicted to become full blown deserts by the climate catastrophists. This 15% increase green is larger in area than the whole of the USA. Crop yields have also increased as the carbon dioxide is a very effective fertiliser, so diminishing the need for artificial fertilisers made from fossil fuels.

Jordan asks: Surely this increase in carbon dioxide levels has been a good thing for the planet. How is this increasing human suffering?

John called for a well-informed debate about the green agenda, setting aside dogma, rather focusing on the ever changing but rigorous scientific research. Resent polling into the average Australian’s perception of our contribution to global carbon emissions is that we produce between 10 and 20%. In fact, we only contribute 1%!

John was passionate about the imperative to feed people (John being a farmer), particularly the impoverished. We must focus on lifting people from poverty and oppression, rather than be driven by fear mongers of planetary ecological collapse, into driving more and more into poverty.

(A couple of months back I wrote here in the Daily Declaration on Keeping, or Losing, Our Faith in Climate Change. I commend that essay to you for a wider discussion of the topic.)

3. Viewing Mankind with Intrinsic God-Given Value Changes Everything

The interview concludes with Jordan clearly articulating his view that every single person is a locus of particular divine creation.  If we accept this, that everyone is sacred, we can’t violate anyone. And we don’t need anti-discrimination legislation as everyone, male, female, rich, poor, black or white are all equal (Gal 3:28).

There followed from John a breath taking history of William Wilberforce (1759–1833) and his campaign, with others, to eradicate slavery. The campaign was extremely costly. However, the British were persuaded of the importance of the stand, so much so, that the country went into generational debt to bring about their goal.

On account of this outstanding self-sacrificial work, Wilberforce, died penniless. Despite all this work two hundred years ago, there are still 45 million slaves in the world today, including many in Sydney, Australia.

Jordan recounts the story of the bronze serpent being lifted up on a pole in the wilderness by Moses. An image, that all who looked upon, could be healed from their fatal snakebites. Jordon then compared this Old Testament situation with the New Testament crucifixion of Jesus on a cross outside the walls of Jerusalem. A sight that, even now, when all who look into his sacrifice can be healed and set free.

Jordan’s articulation of the gospel is compelling. Every word is crafted. Every idea connected. And delivered from the heart and through the mind of a profound thinker. Riveting!

There was a fascinating exchange towards the end, when both men talked about the impact that we can all have on others for good, if we let our light shine and we are willing to learn from others. There is an untapped resource, we are in danger of losing, if we deny viewing mankind as having intrinsic God-given value.

It struck me that both men had suffered great tragedies in their past lives, but here they were both offering hope for the future to millions (they did not talk about their tragedies on this video, I happen to know about them from earlier research).

It’s a long video, nearly two hours, but most encouraging to watch and listen to. Jordan’s facial expressions are priceless!

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Photo: Screenshot via Jordan B Peterson/YouTube.